Wednesday, October 29, 2008

Anyone else?

I just read this scripture quoted in a blog comment thread, alluding to. . .me.

2 Nephi 9:28

28 O that cunning plan of the evil one! O the vainness, and the frailties, and the foolishness of men! When they are learned they think they are wise, and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them not.

The context: I had suggested that Ezra Taft Benson's political views as expressed in 1968 before he was the prophet were not the official political views of the church, and shouldn't be construed as such.

It is actually not the first time this month that I've been told through scriptural references that I am a wicked person {my extrapolated take-away from the conversations}.

I give up.


AmyJune said...

Are you serious? Someone actually wrote that about you!! BTW I totally agree with you about Ezra Taft Benson. Email me the link to that blog. I would love to make a little comment.

Richard said...

I think this election season has been a bit hilarious.

I've LOVED the debating between Mormons on both sides.

My mom use to be a member of the John Burch Society. I know all about the famous ETB quote...

I had to remind my Elder's Quorum just last week that the Church's official stance is one of political neutrality.

Many members forget that fact.

I've really enjoyed many of your recent posts on the subject.

Elly said...


I think you are awesome and I can't believe the nerve of some people. Who are we to judge??

Even though I don't share some of your political views, I have tons of respect for you because you aren't afraid to express your opinion and you don't settle for ignorance. It is sometimes easier to "go with the flow" and you don't. Good for you.


AzĂșcar said...

My religion professor father agrees with you, you know, from a guy who REALLY knows the scriptures.

And someday I have a story about ETB and the Birch Society which will elicit gasps (I refuse to divulge it on a blog.)

Anonymous said...

No. Don't give up. Who are these people? AG

AzĂșcar said...

p.s. I voted for who you told me to vote for (even though I was already voting for her.)

Callie said...

Evil, evil Emily...I had to laugh at that scripture post when I read it on my blog. I am sorry you were "attacked", you of all people don't deserve it in the least. Your posts are always well thought out, and educated. It annoys me to no end when people trample others thoughts because they can't "hear" what you are saying, or because they refuse to listen. I am learning just how prideful and closed minded some people can be during this election. If anything, I suppose it is somewhat entertaining, and passes the time until election night? BTW, post away! I love it.

Rich Alger said...

That learned-wise scripture passage does not fit what I know of you, Emily.

Sometimes we talk past each other instead of to each other. And don't forget to listen with twice the effort you put into talking. Two ears and all...

This reminds me of a lecture I attended in April, "A Conversation Between a Mormon & an Evangelical". We can be convicted in our religious and political views and remain civil with each other.

I look forward to productive debates with those of honest intentions. There is a difference between wrong and rotten. Civil people can discuss their views. Even if we don't end up agreeing, the conversation is valuable. It allows us to step into the shoes of another perspective.

Didi said...

I agree with Rich, a difference of opinion does help us to see another perspective and I know that with all the debates on the blogs with this election it sure did help me to do a lot more research and introspection and praying to make sure I was making a decision based on my own beliefs and not just following with what others said. It has been a tough one for me, there are good arguments on both sides but still too many unanswered questions and unsure of motives to sway me to the other side. You are NOT awful or evil Emily. Don't give up- everyone's opinion is valuable.

Shelly Beson said...

Hi Emily, I've been following the Stephanie and Christian saga and found your blog. Everything I read gave me chills. I'm easily excited especially when someone else's political views match mine so perfectly. I'm not lds but I have lived in Arizona all my life. Many of my friends just happened to be lds. I'm ashamed to admit this but I always had the impression that all mormons were right wing conservatives and had a collective political mentality. You have proven me so very wrong. I'm super open minded and try not to stereotype but I did and I'm sorry. I'm going to try and read you regularly and I hope you dont mind if I comment from time to time. Very sincerely, Shelly Beson

Nancy said...

Or give in. And be a wicked witch for Halloween!

Neil and Diana said...

Judge not, that ye be not judged.
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured unto you. Matthew 7:1-2

Jord said...

My pops always counters with Ether 12:26- Fools mock but they shall mourn!

Anonymous said...

There were several (at least 2) people that posted anonymously on Callie's blog. I was the first two and I was not the others. I just wanted you to not link my comments with those directed at judging you.

In the January 1988 Ensign First Presidency Message, then President and Prophet of the Church ETB spoke of the evils of Socialism in a talk about the Book of Mormon.

May 1977 Ensign, First Presidency Member Marion G Romney also spoke of the evils of Socialism.

August 1971 Ensign has an article written by Then Church President and Prophet John Talyor entitled The Government of God, where he also talks of the evils of Socialism.

At President Benson's Funeral President Hinckley made reference to the evils of communisim and socialism. You can read it in the July 1994 Ensign.

My point here is simply that the church's stance on socialism is not based simply on a talk given in 1968 by ETB, in fact perhaps his most powerful talk was given in 1977. There have been numerous Prophets who have also spoken on the subject.

We all have the right to think.

Kacy said...

I'm with you, Emily.

Veronica said...

I really enjoy your blog for the discussion, but I wanted to point out that the reason that so many mormons are using quotes by Pres Benson may be because of the one or two that were in the Ensign in the past few MONTHS. That was how I found it. I don't really love either candidate, but I feel like if it was just reprinted, the leaders of our church must find the quote to be valid.

tessa said...

Steve and I have been sitting side by side on our laptops perusing the comments and accusations. Very entertaining:) Don't give up, OK? I don't share all your political views but I do enjoy hearing them and I don't think 2 Nephi 9:28 applies in the least from what I know of you. Just my 2 cents.

Steve said...

Em, you are a freakin' nut. I am not voting for Obama (for many reasons that I won't go into here).

That being said, Obama is not communist nor a socialist. However, us conservatives like to use those labels.

The socialism and communism referred to in the above church articles are a far cry from the changes Obama wants to implement: apples and oranges. People need to remember the historical context of socialism/communism from prior decades.

As for ETB's comments - It was recently pointed out by various general authorities, that comments over the pulpit at stake conferences made by Apostles are not applicable to The Church as a whole, and should be construed as a message for that stake.

In fact, other than General Conference and church magazines, there are few ways that the President of the Church, or the Quorum of the Twelve, actually disseminate revelation.

For example, the Book Mormon Doctrine, by McConkie isn't "official doctrine" of The Church, and has undergone several revisions.

The point being: unless Benson is speaking over the pulpit, or using official church media, it isn't "doctrine."

And remember: McCain '08!